Episode 17

Michael Levitt of the Breakfast Leadership Network

This week on Podcaster Stories, I sit down with Michael Levitt of the Breakfast Leadership Network Show.

The Breakfast Leadership Network Show interviews global thought leaders, entrepreneurs, and marketing experts to show the audience the right steps (no shortcuts!) to grow your business and your life.

Topics up for discussion this week include:

  • why he moved from only working with C-suite executives to companies looking to improve the mental well-being of their employees
  • how the pandemic is creating a tsunami of mental health issues and burnout at work
  • a report by Monster.com that showed 7/10 employees are suffering from burnout
  • why burnout and stress was ignored by business for so long
  • how insurance claims for mental health issues in the workplace are skyrocketing
  • why corporate initiatives around talking about mental health are key to a better work environment
  • why we, as humans, need better boundaries when it comes to how we live
  • how a nutritionist can help relieve stress and burnout
  • how stress is a key element in the cause of more than 20 chronic diseases
  • how Michael's cardiac event in 2009 saw him realize the importance of nutrition and lifestyle
  • how government can increase healthier lifestyles by proper food pricing when it comes to good food versus junk food
  • how multitasking adds to our stress levels
  • how the over-subscription of antibiotics has hindered our ability to have a clean digestive system
  • how Michael's Breakfast Leadership Show has evolved to include guests, and how that's seen his show evolve exponentially
  • how the conversations on the podcast have helped him grow professionally
  • how podcasting is the equivalent of all your favourite radio shows in one playlist
  • how using themes for his weekdays helps Michael keep his stress under control
  • how a period of 369 days between 2009 and 2010 flipped his life completely, due to burnout
  • why he had to completely reinvent himself after that period
  • how the signs of burnout are visible, if we know how to recognize them
  • why we need to look at what others are doing, and give them the benefit of the doubt as opposed to getting stressed about their intentions
  • Michael's goals for the future of his show and his idea of spin-offs in 2021
  • why he takes time off at the end of the year to relax, recharge, and revisit his goals
  • how podcasting has made it easy to connect with people you might struggle to have connected with pre-social media and internet days
  • why Michael respects Alan Muhally as a leader, and why Winston Churchill is his favourite leader of all time
  • how it's lonely as a leader

Settle back for an insightful episode about not only leadership, but why - without looking after ourselves - there won't be any leaders to start with.

Connect with Michael:

Contact me: danny@podcasterstories.com

My equipment:

Recommended resources:



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Transcript
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I think a lot of it boils down to we

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as humans don't have proper boundaries and how we live

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and the boundaries of what we consume, not just food,

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but the information that we consume. Eh, right now it's

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a stressful time. And if we're watching the news several

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hours a day were consuming a lot of negative information

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in that stresses people out. It concerns us as governments,

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open things up and then close things back down again,

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that stressful for many people, because they're worried they have

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fear that they could lose their job. There could be

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an income drop in their household. They won't be able

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to do the things that they like doing, you know,

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with the holiday's coming up.

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There's a lot of concern of will I be able

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to go home for Christmas or see loved ones for

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the holidays or whatever holiday you observe. It's really, really

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problematic. And you know, that story,

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Hi and welcome to Podcaster Stories each week we will

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have a conversation with podcasters across all mediums and share

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their story. What motivates them, why they started a Hill

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as a group. And More what was the talk about

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her personal life and some of the things that have

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happened that made them the person they are today. And

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now here's your host. Danny Brown hi, and welcome to

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another episode of Podcaster Stories this week, I have Mike

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Levitt host of the Breakfast Leadership show in which it

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looks to help lead it, to reduce stress and prevent

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burnout and focus on what really matters the most. So,

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Michael, welcome to the show. I really appreciate you being

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here. How about you introduce yourself and a bunch of

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background about your show.

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Thank you so much. Danny glad to be here. So

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again, Michael, Levitt the host of the The Breakfast Leadership

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show in, I launched the Breakfast Leadership Network several years

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ago to address burnout. And I started off working with

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C suite executives, but I have expanded that to working

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with organizations that want to improve the mental and physical

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well-being of their employees, because burn out, it takes a

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huge toll on every organization with lost productivity, absenteeism, maybe

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even lost employees, because they don't have to go out

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on mental or sick leave or potentially save your organization

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altogether and not right.

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Definitely is something that we'll be speaking about and the

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shore, I think it's important as well with 2d, be

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in the world, mental health day, that as you mentioned,

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you know, we can lose employees and colleagues, you know,

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through stress and burnout, not just on a sort of

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take time off of work, which I think everybody tends

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to think over the, the stress can have some time

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off of it. All of a sudden it causes a

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lot more issues than just to take them off work.

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Oh, definitely. In a thank you for acknowledging the mental

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health day. I'm, it's a, it's a big challenge. And

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we're seeing a lot of issues, especially during this pandemic

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where a lot of people are struggling with work and

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life and everything in between. And it's, it's not a

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good time for a lot of people, but it doesn't

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to be that way. There are some things that we

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all can do to help ease the stress and, and

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keep our, our mental wellness a top priority.

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Now, you mentioned that I was in the pandemic and

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my wife long enough sent out a newsletter up this

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morning, where she mentioned the, the mental health effects of

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the pandemic and you know, and people in general, how

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much of our, obviously the pandemic has had a huge

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impact on people globally. How much do you think is

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actually being recognized by C workplaces? I know a lot

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of work places that are moving to a remote only

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option. Microsoft just announced. It there'll be, feel a little

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more, you know, if people wish to do that, how

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much do you feel that there is a workplace is

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still need to get up to speed with what's happened

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in when it comes to, you know, a stress on

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our own mental health. We have this pandemic, I guess,

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You know, there was a couple stats that I would

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like to share. One monster.com did a study earlier in

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the summer. And they indicated that 69% of those surveyed

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employees are identifying as being burned out. So that's roughly

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seven out of 10 employees are dealing with some type

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of burnout right now, much of it due to working

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remotely in working from home and trying to juggle all

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the things that we're doing and not spending the time

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to separate work from home. Because before, for many of

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us, if we weren't working from our home, there was

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basically segment's in our day, we would get up in

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the morning, we would go to work commute, whether driving

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or taking a subway or something like that, working, you

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know, and then taking a break at lunch and whatever

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coffee breaks and what not leaving, going home.

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And then you'd have the separation. Well, now everything's in

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one spot in so many people are just getting up

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for singing in the morning and they just start working

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and they work late into the evening every day because

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of zoom calls and everything else is going on. And

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congratulations. So many people became full-time school teachers as well

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because their kids were home because the schools were closed

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and its really created a lot of challenges. Another study

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indicated that 54% of employees feel that the HR department

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are not doing enough to address their mental needs. Now

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some organizations are starting to look into this, but they

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need to get ahead of it because for the longest

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time in burnout was around before this pandemic has been

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talking about burnout for years.

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And I have a book that was written and published

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in 1980 called burnout. So its been around a long

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time, but it's getting attention now. And the challenge that

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we're seeing is so many people are, are dealing with

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his burnout in organizations, ignored it for the longest time

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because they didn't see a direct impact on the bottom

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line that they didn't see it in the financial statements,

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but I guarantee you, they will because this year alone

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in talking with a colleague of mine, who's in the

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insurance industry, the mental health claims and the insurance claims

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for mental health related matters are skyrocketing. So what that

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means is the claims are going to exceed, you know,

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basically what your benefits package was set up as so

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next year when it comes to renewal time, many employers

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are going to be paying much higher insurance premiums because

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the claims went so far up on the mental health

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side of things.

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That's going to impact the bottom line in that can

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be prevented by organizations. If they take a more proactive

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approach in addressing the stress and wellbeing that so many

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of their employees are facing and not just handing them

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an EAP brochure and say, here you can call somebody

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toll free and you have a chat with them. We've

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got to go beyond that. There's more investment that employers

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need to do for the wellbeing of their employees.

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And I think that that ties in really nicely to,

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you had mentioned that you bought a book back in

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1980, it was in 1982, 20 years ago. Sorry. Thank

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you.

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In 1980, I hate to do the math. It was

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40 years ago

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Or two years ago. I, it, it, it feels

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Like about five years ago because I remember in 1980

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pretty clearly, but I had hair back then too. So

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I'm a completely different world, but not really a So.

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Yeah, it's it it's, it's been around a long time,

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but it's definitely more it's more talked about because I

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think mental health is being more talked about ah, the

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stigma while it still there is easing up. And I

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think, you know, in Canada, for example, ballots talk that

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is brought on a ton of awareness and there's key

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people in the world that have publicly indicated that they've

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had some mental health challenges and they are strong advocates

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to say, it's okay to say that you're not okay

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and get the help that you need.

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And because you want to be the healthiest version of

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yourself, we have no problem going to a doctor. If

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we have an ailment or indigestion or some type of

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physical ailment, it shouldn't be the same way if there's

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something going on, as far as how we're feeling and

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what's on our mind and our thoughts and behaviors and

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getting those address to make sure that we're the best

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version of ourselves is critical and crucial and everyone should

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encourage it.

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Now I know your background is in healthcare. Umm, and

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it was written it on your site where, when you

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were mentioning in the States from one store, ah, elsewhere

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earlier in on your, on your website, you've got to

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start from, that really stood out for me from the

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world health organization about occupational burnout and the number's from

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your own time in health care. And the, the numbers

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coming out from the Who is 75% to 75% of

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patients that use are, say it's stress as the reason

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they were there. And that that's a pretty scary number.

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I mean you mentioned 710, that's even higher, like seven

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and a half out of 10, you know, occupational burnout.

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Or do you think are some of the key factors

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in a sport from your time in health care and

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the people that you speak to it on your show

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and how do we take that back under control?

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Or do you think,

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I think a lot of it boils down to we

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as humans don't have proper boundaries and how we live

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and the boundaries of what we consume, not just food,

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but the information that we consume right now, it's a

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stressful time. And if we're watching the news several hours

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a day were consuming a lot of negative information. Okay.

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And that stresses people out. It concerns us as, as

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governments open things up and then close things back down

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again, that stressful for many people because they're worried they

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have fear that they could lose their job. There could

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be an income drop in their household. They won't be

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able to do the things that they liked doing, you

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know, with the holidays coming up.

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There's a lot of concern of will I be able

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to go home for Christmas or see loved ones for

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the holidays or whatever holiday you observe. It it's a

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lot really, really problematic. And you know, that stress builds

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up. But as far as the cases of what we

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saw when we saw it, when I was in health

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care and the primary care with all of the stress,

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again, it's in proper nutrition and not getting enough rest

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if you eat better and I'm not telling people just

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to eat kale salads all day and night, that's not

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what I mean. I highly recommend everybody find a nutritionist

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or a dietitian in work with them to figure out

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the right foods for you because each of us have

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some type of food and tolerance.

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So if you can find the right foods for you

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to provide you the natural energy that you need to

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have a sustainable energy level throughout your day. So you

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don't have to hit that 2:00 PM red bull or

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cup of coffee that will make you feel better because

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your body won't need all the extra stimulants, which creates

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the imbalance rises and crashes and all of that stuff,

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which does cause physical stress on our bodies. Couple that

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with sleep so many of us have horrible sleep. And

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when we get deep sleep, that's when our body repairs,

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all the damage that we do to ourselves on a

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daily basis. And if we're not sleeping well, then today's

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damage gets piled on to tomorrow's damage and it just

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continues.

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And then you started seeing physical ailments or, you know,

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gut bacteria. For example, if you're not eating properly can

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create problems. You know, the diabetic population continues to increase

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and I just saw literally about a half an hour

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before we jumped on that, the Metformin it's a heavily

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prescribed drugs for diabetes has been recalled because there are

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cancer causing agents in that medication. So here's a medication

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and trying to help people and Oh congratulations. Yeah, we're

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keeping your diabetes under control, but now we've just introduced

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the possibility that you're going to have cancer. So welcome

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to chemo and radiation in it.

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And a lot of that is driven by how we

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take care of ourselves, our activity in what weed. Now,

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some people in working in health care, there are some

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cultures that unfortunately are programmed to get type two diabetes.

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They can be healthy, have all of the right indicators,

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but unfortunately just their, you know, their DNA makeup and

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the culture where they came from can create those situations.

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So that's always concerning when I see majorly prescribed a

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medication being recalled because I'm thinking how many millions and

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millions of people are taking that. And again, that causes

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stress. So if you've got a chronic disease you're stressed

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and actually the key thing about stress is there are,

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I believe the number is 26 chronic diseases.

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That stress is actually an element as a potential cause

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for that chronic disease, hypertension, high blood pressure, all of

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these things. So if you don't control your stress, you're

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creating scenarios where you can end up with several other

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chronic diseases. Unfortunately, you know, again, primary care or, you

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know, we saw people that had four or five different

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chronic diseases. And at which means, you know, as a

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physician, there's all kinds of prescriptions that are being written

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for these people instead of gravitating them to a better

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nutrition, more activities and things like that. And I know

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that they can get off of those medications. I'm a

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perfect example. You know, I have my cardiac event back

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in 2009 with my burn-out and all of that stuff.

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And I'm off all of my heart medications. So don't

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take them any more because I'm taking nutrients that I've

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worked with, the nutritionist and natural pet food doctors and

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all of that and getting a proper exercise and eating

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vegetables, you know, here's a pro tip at the grocery

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store or shop the perimeter trying to limit don't. I

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mean, I'll, by all means, there's things in there are

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spices and things like that you would want to cook

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with. That is great. But trying not to make sure

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that the majority of your food comes in a cardboard

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box that's that's not good for you. Yeah.

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It's interesting. You mentioned about the food and nutrition. There

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was a meme on Facebook a while back and it

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did, did their own quite a bit. And it was

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comparing the price of, as you mentioned, by in healthy

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foods of vegetables, you know, the proper about carbohydrates of

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proper proteins, etc. And you compare that to like a

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bottle of pop or a fast food joint McDonald's meal.

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And you can see a McDonald's meal for three bucks

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and for the equivalent amount of protein, et cetera, obviously

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you'd have McDonald's in a healthy protein by the night,

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but it costs a lot of 20, 25 bucks and

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to get the same amount of C thresh verge, you

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know, good, good milk and stuff like that. So I

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know a lot of governments are, especially with the pandemic

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that is, you know, they are the real looking at

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with the serve there at the community is the, you

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know, the people that put them into power.

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And one of the things is universal basic income, for

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example, but, and that's a great start, but do you

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think that needs to be a and come back to

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your point and how you get off your medication through

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a proper nutrition exercise, you know, and, and really looking

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after yourself due, we need to put as much emphasis

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on making junk food more expensive than the healthy food,

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especially for the Lord. And can families, were they switched

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to the junk food coz that's all that they can

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basically afford?

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Yeah. I think there's definitely ways to look at that

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because, but I have noticed, and I'll, I'll, I'll pick

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on the golden arches for a minute. They do have

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a healthy food options. You just have to know what

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to order, but you know, one of their meals, for

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example, if you order the number three with a Coke,

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for example, you know, that's gonna run you, you know,

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in, in Canada 12, maybe $13, I used to be

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four or five and now it's 12 or 13. And

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I have found that you can shop by, I went

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to the grocery store this morning and hit up the

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veggie aisle, fresh meats, lean meats, all of that kinda

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good stuff.

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And, you know, dividing that by the number of meals

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that I will get out of that food is considerably

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cheaper than ordering a number three with a Coke or

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anything like that. So it's just understanding how to prepare

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meals and things like that in the end of the

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internet. And the beautiful thing is, and even there are

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so many of these meal box systems that are out

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there as well, that can help you kind of guide

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yourself to preparing meals that are healthier, fresh ingredients, finding

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the nutrients that work for you. And I know some

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people say they don't have time, but here's what they'll

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do. They'll get home from work and they'll use a

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food ordering app and have somebody deliver the food for

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them.

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I cook dinner last night and I had the veggies.

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I had starches, I have a lean meats. It was

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done in 22 minutes and ordering a food app. You're

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waiting 30 to 45. So they say, well, it's quicker

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to order may be if you're driving to there from

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work and picking it up or even, you know, leaving

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your house and going in there and coming back. And

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I find that its actually a ch quicker too, make

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your own meals on top of that. It's one of

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those things. And this is one of the things that

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I think a lot of people get in trouble with

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stress is they multitask. They try to do too many

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things when you're preparing a meal. And I'll be honest

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with you. I have not been someone to cook meals

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up until probably the last four or five years.

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Actually I'd say probably closer to three years. I find

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it very therapeutic to be cutting up the vegetables, getting

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them prepared, whether I'm going to grill them or eat

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them raw or whatever the case may be preparing the

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meats Proterra, or if I'm having potatoes or rice taking

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care of all of those things, it's very therapeutic because

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you need to pay attention what you're doing, especially if

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you're using a knife. Okay. And I still have all

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of my digits. I haven't cut them yet. Knock on

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wood. But if there's something about that, its it's a,

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I would almost a, a, a, a self care type

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of thing for me where it's like, I enjoy cooking.

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I enjoy preparing things. So I like experimenting with some

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things and yeah,

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And I like tasting food and you can't, you can't

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really taste fast food.

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I mean, it's got flavor of course, but any more

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you eat it. And Chuck, how you're feeling, how is

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your energy levels? How is your gut and all of

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those things. And again, I, a big component of stress

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that, and we're starting to see more and more studies

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about this is your gut activity or a gut bacteria.

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M w for many of us, you know, in our

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generation, we were over prescribed antibiotics. And there are studies

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showing that that has impacted our ability to have a

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clean digestive systems. So that's why you start seeing the

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need for antacids and all of those types of things.

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Because the gut bacteria that we need to break down

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the foods in properly, you know, divvy the things up

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to what their supposed to do inside of our bodies

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has been eaten away a little bit. So your body's

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is going, I don't know what to do with this

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stuff. So it sends it back up and you get

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acid reflux. And it's a, it's a fun thing to

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have. But again, all of these things like acid reflux,

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for example, sometimes that flares up at night and it

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could flare up while you're sleeping, wakes you up. If

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you have it, well, guess what, you've been interrupted with

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your sleep. So you're not repairing the damage to your

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body cause you're not getting good sleep. So that's why

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nutrition is such an important thing. And well, again, why

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highly recommended people to work with a nutritionist or dietician

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to figure out what are the right foods for you?

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So you can live a better, healthier life and have

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more natural energy. Instead of the other stimulants that we

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know we all use and choose,

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You know, you're a Breakfast Leadership shop that's been going

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on since 2017. Now I believe crept w has experienced

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lift up to your expectations and what's been different from

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what you might've expected here or when you first started

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to show up.

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Yeah. And when I launched the show, my original content

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or in my original intent for the show was I

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was, I didn't really have a plan to interview anybody.

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I was just going to have basically a little five

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to 10 minute snippets on ideas on how to reduce

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stress and reduce your burnout and things like that. And

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then, and the first, you know, 50 or 60 episodes

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of the show, what it was just that. But then

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I was encouraged by a good colleague of mine to

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say, you know, you should interview guests. So I started

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and it, it it's blown me away. The, the fun

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conversations that I get to have with people across the

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globe on a variety of different things. So yes, burn

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out as one of them. But the show is kind

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of taken on a direction of these are successful.

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Entrepreneurs are successful people in life. They're doing great things

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in their share their story as to how they got

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there because so many people want to do something different

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in their life than they are doing right now. So

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it, it provides them some insights behind the curtain scenes

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of how individuals were able to adjust and pivot and

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grow in their organizations to get the growth that they

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want to be, where they want to be. Some of

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them are not where they want to be up, but

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they're still growing on doing some great things. And it,

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it, it has amazing, you know, the reaction. And I

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get some of the feedback that I get, you know,

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to get international rankings. I scratch my head and say,

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why, why, why am I so popular in the UK?

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I've I've I I'm here. I am a dual citizen.

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I split time between the United States and Canada. I'm

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like, well, why is the UK listening to me? And

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you know, I'm thankful. Believe me, I'm, I'm thrilled that,

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you know, anybody listens to my show. It's a, it's

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a good thing, but it's entertaining. It's fun because I've

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gained so much professional and personal growth from the conversations

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I've had, having interviews, you know, that our, you know,

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I'm being interviewed. And obviously the ones that I've held

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myself, he just gained so much knowledge. And, and I,

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when people are in, I know a lot of people

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are familiar with podcasts and now more so than they

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were even three years ago.

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And when I explained to people that have never listened

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before, they said, the beautiful thing that I like about

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podcasts is if you love to talk radio, imagine just

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being able to listen to a station or several stations

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on the exact content you want. Cause if we listened

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to talk radio in and out, or they may be

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for segments may be five, six segments, and there is

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going to be maybe one or two of those segments

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that are interesting to us. And then the other is

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for Lincoln. I'm not going to pay any attention, but

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with this, you can pick and choose and say, I

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want to listen to this type of content. And again,

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it's for growth. And, and then of course there's comedy

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and entertainment shows and things like that. And I know

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a lot of people listened to those things to, you

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know, make a, a good harmonious, balanced with things because

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a lot of the world, we definitely need to laugh

Speaker:

more, especially during the pandemic, but long story short, I

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love the medium.

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I know it's got a lot of growth coming because

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there's so many new players that are coming into it,

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which is going to drive people into it. And it's

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a great creative, a way to do it in a

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w what I find best about it is, you know,

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and just to kinda behind the curtain thing for me

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is it took me a while to get my feet

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around when I should do interviews, because it was doing

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them every day. It was kind of scattered and all

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of that. And then one of the things that I

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do for my own stress reduction and prevention is I've

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themes for every day of my week. So on Mondays,

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I do, I am a public speaker. So I do

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a lot of public speaking engagements, all of that virtual

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now in my luggage, he misses me, but they are

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all virtual, but Monday is, are the days that I

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do research on that and reach out to your event

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planners and a lineup.

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Some speaking events Tuesdays I use for intro

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Calls or followup calls. Wednesdays

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Are my podcast show recording days. That's usually the day

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I record and less someone can't do it on a

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Wednesday. Then I've got some flexibility in the Thursdays and

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Fridays. I don't schedule anything. I leave those open for

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those last minute. Hey, can we jump on a call

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this week? Typically I can say, how was your Thursday

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or Friday? Look, I keep those open. I'm thankful that,

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and it's taken time for me to figure that out,

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but I know by having themes for every day of

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the week, I don't have to think about really anything

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differently than, okay. Today is Monday. And my focus is

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on speaking Tuesdays, let's have some calls and learn some

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new things about people, Wednesdays, I'm wearing this thing and

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doing what we're doing right now and on Thursdays and

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Fridays can be a little bit more, I don't want

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to say chaotic, but they have a lot of different

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flavors to them based on what is come up from,

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from the week.

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And by doing that, I don't have to shift gears

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and do different things all the time. And I think

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that's something that most people can do that even if

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they're working for an organization, I think it's a good

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idea to sort out and figure out, you know, where,

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you know, the world makes sense. So during your week

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in, you work with your manager and say, Hey, I

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got an idea. I'm going to try this and what

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will happen as you know, okay, Wednesdays, I work on

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the financials or Thursdays, I work on follow up calls

Speaker:

or whatever it makes sense for you by doing that,

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your brain is working on likeminded tasks. So its not

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so hard to shift gears into doing different things that

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just makes it a little bit more organized.

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And I think by doing that, it helps reduce a

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lot of the stress of switching gears and multitasking. And

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all of it

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Is that they speak in of stress. And I know

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you'd alluded to it earlier, your medical event, back in

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2009, you had quite an adventure from, for want of

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a better description. And obviously you had a heart attack,

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but you also had some personal stuff that happened at

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the same time. Yep. And I can only imagine how

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all of that combined, you know, it would have affected

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you So so what happened there are and how did

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you react? I guess?

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Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, real quickly and in 2009,

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after being a healthcare executive at a start-up health care

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organization for a couple of years, over a period of

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a year, 369 days from May, 2009 to May, 2010,

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I had a heart attack that should have killed me.

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I lost my job during the great recession. My car

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was repossessed in my home was foreclosed all in a

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year. I'm in why did those things happened? Because I

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was burned out. I was so burned out. I wasn't

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taking care of myself. My nutrition plan was breakfast, lunch

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and dinner talking into a Microphone driving around the corner

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painting and getting handed a Brown back though.

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That was my meal plan because I was working so

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many hours in this ironically health care organization. I wasn't

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taking care of myself. You know, health care organizations tell

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people how to live their lives, but here I was

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not walking the walk. And then when, after you lose

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your job during the great recession, there wasn't a lot

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of jobs available. And that area that I was in

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and Oh, congratulations. Now you're on all of these heart

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medications. So it was costing me a thousand dollars a

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month because I didn't have any drug insurance coverage. And

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I was on unemployment, which means lot less income coming

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in. You have to pay for food for your family

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in all of a sudden, a a thousand dollars a

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month for drugs and not the fun kind of drugs,

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but the stuff that keeps you alive, maybe I should

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have taken those instead of probably would have felt better.

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I don't know. I'm not judging, you know, that they

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were saying, Oh yes or no butt end of the

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day, when you do that, it impacts your ability to

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pay other bills. And of course I worked with all

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of our creditors and they all gave us grace, you

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know, for a period of time. But unfortunately that grace

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period ran out in the bank, they exercise their right

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to take back to the vehicle in foreclosure to the

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home. And I don't blame them. You know, it, the

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was we had an agreement. I didn't live up to

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the agreement of course have circumstances. But at the end

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of the day, I couldn't pay bills. And if you

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can't pay bills, you know, they have a right to

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take that step back and they did. And, but all

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of those things happened because I was burned out and

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I wasn't taking care of myself. So after surviving all

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of those things, I, you know, had a choice.

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So it was like, well, I survived them. I get

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my must be Superman. I'm not going to change a

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thing. Or I realize I never want to go through

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a year like that ever again. What do I need

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to do to make sure that doesn't happen? And I

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did a lot of deep work and a lot of

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reflection, an intro. It was kind of looking in and

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I did it in a caring, loving way. Some very

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thankful that some people very close to me told me

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its like, you know, look within, but don't judge just

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observe, you know, the choices and the behaviors and thoughts

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that you did. The, that led up to that year

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of worst case scenario. And then from there I see

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what areas you can make adjustments and to prevent that

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from happening again.

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And that's what I did, you know, for me, you

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know, I, I made the choice to completely reinvent myself.

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Now for most people that are burned out, I don't

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want to scare them. No, you don't have to re-invent

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yourself. Or the majority of people don't they have to

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make some adjustments in their lives and a couple of

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things and that can make a big difference and even

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stopping burnout. Doesn't take a lot to stop it, get

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good sleep, eat better, get active control your inputs of

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what your watching and consuming rest to be thankful for

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things that you're thankful for a, especially on the Canadian

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Thanksgiving weekend, be thankful even though, or in the middle

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of a pandemic, there's still a ton of things to

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be thankful for and, and focus on that and that

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can stop the burnout.

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But then the deeper work people need to do is

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to determine what led up to the burnout in the

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first place. What were my thoughts, my beliefs, my habits,

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those things. And that takes a bit more work because

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you have to look within. And a lot of people

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are very afraid to do that. But if you do

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do it with love, love yourself because you're never with

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anybody than yourself ever. Even if you have a sidekick,

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that's always at your side, you're still, you know, you

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live with yourself everyday your life. So you've got to

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love yourself and look and see why those things happen.

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And I recommend if, if, if you're having difficulties with

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that to work with the therapist to, to guide you

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through that, I didn't in those early days, I did

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the work for myself.

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I think it would've been beneficial for me to work

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with the therapist earlier. I think it would have expedited

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some things and probably provide a little bit more clarity

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on some things that took a little bit longer for

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me to figure out. But at the end of the

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day, I'm living the ideal life now and I'm happy

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to be alive obviously and help others, you know, navigate

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their burnout journey as well.

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And where are you ever concerned? Or if you're like,

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because obviously as you mentioned, you had to reinvent yourself,

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there was certain decisions you had to make too to

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really avoid or what had happened and the run-up to

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your, your event, your, your health issues, or were you

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ever concerned to, as you were gone through the rebuilding

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process that you may be taking on more stress or

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more burnout because you know, you don't want to start

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from scratch. You've got bills to pay, you've got responsibilities,

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but you've also got a new life again for want

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of a better description to build. And were you concerned

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that you may end up back to square one because

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of what you will know taken on

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Early on? Yes. I was concerned that burnout would creep

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back in, but thankfully I knew the signs of burnout

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at that point. I certainly didn't know them before, although

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they were all there and loved ones and friends and

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family tried to warn me, but I wouldn't listen to

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them. And I think that was a big, big mistake

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on my part. I could have potentially had it off.

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So many of those losses, if I would have caught

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it and started doing things differently, who knows about the

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cardiac event, you know, that that could have been something

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that could have come up, but at least they could

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have potentially been put on some medications to unblock the

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arteries and things like that. So I wouldn't of had

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to have a heart attack, but it's hard to say,

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but once, you know, starting a new and rebuilding, I

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looked at it and, and this was a mindset thing

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that I looked at it from a point of curiosity

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and I was intentional about choices and thoughts.

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And literally, I mean, of course that slows things down

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a bit, which I think is a good thing for

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many of us is when I made a decision or

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if I reacted to something I would pause and say,

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okay, why am I either happy about this? Or why

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am I upset about this particular moment? And now even,

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I'll be honest with you. I even had this conversation

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with my better half and myself earlier today, you know,

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regarding this pandemic and governments closing things down and, you

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know, really impacting businesses and families and, you know, wondering,

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okay, is a blanket approach to close everything down the

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right thing to do, or should they be more pin-point

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on the problem areas instead of just doing a blanket

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closing of everything and really struggled with that and was

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borderline upset about the situation.

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And, but upon reflection, looking at it going, okay, I

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think as a society and everybody should look to whatever

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decisions are being made by others as their intent is

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to do the best that they think that they can

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do at this moment with the information that they have

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and go at it in a non-judgemental way. And its

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easy for us, especially with social media and everything else

Speaker:

and S presidential elections. It's just, there's all kinds of

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stress going on all over the place. And we're very

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quick to judge and say, they shouldn't do this, you

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know, and to get on our soap box and start

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pointing and yelling, it doesn't help anything.

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It doesn't make things better. All it does is it

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builds up or stress and you know, thankfully we caught

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it. You know, I took me a little bit, cause

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sometimes I'm slow when it comes to things like that.

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I got a history for that, but at the end

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of the day, you know, I realize, okay, what can

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I do? What are the things that I can do

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to tell with the situation? Okay. So if I'm concerned

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about will pick on restaurants, cause a lot of In

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in Toronto with all of the restaurants or are being

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closer to it, to our dining room as of today.

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So in that situation, I can still order food from

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my favorite restaurants. There are still open for takeout, obviously

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pick a nutrition foods and all of that.

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But again, it's one of those things were for me,

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it was being empathetic for the potential losses that that

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business has and the people that work for it and

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the ripple effect. And again, it goes back to then

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I'll be honest with it. It's a trigger because it

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brings me back to my experience of losing everything. And

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I don't want people to go through that. That's why

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I do the work that I do. I don't want

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people to have burnout, create those scenarios where they could

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lose their job, their car, their house had to relocate

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to a brand new community and leave friends and family

Speaker:

behind it. It's not, that's not a pleasant and I

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don't want people to go through that experience. That's why

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I stand on my soap box and say burn-out is

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dangerous.

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You don't want to mess with it.

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Oh no, you sure you had mentioned earlier, you show

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a three years old or if it's a little over

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three years old and obviously you mentioned you got listers

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in the UK and let me know how to get

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in touch with you. And that's a really growing the

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way you want it to. What are your goals for

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the future of the show? I know you've you mentioned

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it came from just being yourself, talking about some topics.

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Now it's the The Breakfast Leadership show. We have talking

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to people every, you know, every episode, what your goals,

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you know, for show and its direction.

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I think for the next few years, especially with what's

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going on in this pandemic is, eh, there's a lot

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of potential that I probably need to have either some

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spinoffs of the show, that to focus on more specific

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on a separate items, you know, health obviously is a

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big concern of mine for people, maybe doing a focal

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point on that small business, you know, the, the heart

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and soul of so many countries. That's why I bring

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in a lot of people to help small business leaders

Speaker:

and to grow their businesses and do things that will

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learn from experiences of others. And then obviously the burnout

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side of things and making sure that there's, you know,

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tips that people that are hearing again and again on

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how to quickly stop burnout and then started doing the

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deeper work to figure out why you burned out in

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the first place.

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That's why I'm a certified CBT cognitive behavioral therapy and

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neuro linguistic programming NLP therapist. I went out and got

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those certificates because what I was finding in working with

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people in teams is a lot of the situations that

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led to their burnout, including myself, it was their thoughts

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are beliefs or behaviors. And that's why, you know, getting

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certified in those two practices has been really helpful for

Speaker:

me to be able to guide people, to look within

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and see, okay, why do you think you burned out?

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Okay, what were the ingredients? What were your choices?

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Why did you react that way and get them thinking

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about some things? So they recognize, okay, my thoughts on

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this lead me to make these choices, which turned into

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this situation, which created this situation, which led me to

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have prolonged stress and prolonged stress turns into burnout. And

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it's been really helpful for insights to me is why

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people burn out and more importantly, what they can do

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to get out of it and, and crucially prevent it

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from happening again,

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The spinoff, Sandra cool, as a sound like I'm a

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light on the first episode of the season, I was

Speaker:

speaking to a couple of ladies and gentlemen, Rachel, and

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they have like a, a spin off of their show

Speaker:

where they concentrate on share and, and Tokyo is of

Speaker:

black indigenous. And, you know, people of color's a Stories,

Speaker:

which I think is real cool to see Podcaster move

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away. As you mention to your own podcasts, to move

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over from, see at the core, not really to move

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away, but that still the core message, but still have

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these little offshoots. And when you see on TV all

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the time, you have, you know, main episodes on say

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Amazon or Netflix, and then you have a little spinoff.

Speaker:

So the star Wars movie, you got like the Solo

Speaker:

movie on the road one or whatever.

Speaker:

And I think it's interesting to see podcasts as to

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how to think about, you know, yourself, a lot of

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the time podcasts, I just don't get taken seriously. I

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have a lot of geeks on our basement. So in

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our bedrooms can, you can leave the video game quarters

Speaker:

back in the eighties. So its really cool to see

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you move to that direction as well. And if so,

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what, what did you go with that? Or are you

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looking to launch that next year or is it like

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a three or five year plan or

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Let's start looking into it for 2021 for sure. Because

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I've got a backload of interviews that are coming up

Speaker:

over the next a month or so I tend to

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take the entire month of December off. So I don't

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do hardly anything. I, I dabble in a little things,

Speaker:

but I started doing that a couple of years ago

Speaker:

just for my own well being and self care its

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like I've had a, it's a good way for me

Speaker:

to reflect on the year and look and do some,

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you know, business planning and what not, you know, its

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not like I just sit on the couch and, and

Speaker:

stare at the television and watch college football bowl games

Speaker:

all the time, which I will do. Although I don't

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know how the bowl games are going to be this

Speaker:

year because they started so late I and who knows?

Speaker:

I haven't looked at as far ahead, but I anticipate

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there'll be something for me to consume, but when you

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take a break and get away from your normal work

Speaker:

pace, that's when clarity can come in. And even if

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you have a, you know, a really structured work day

Speaker:

and things like that and giving yourself a ton of

Speaker:

self-care time and whatnot is going to allow me to

Speaker:

start thinking about that. And you know, he was like

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the, the spinning off of the Show has been back

Speaker:

of my mind for several months now and with the

Speaker:

organization, you know the name of it being The Breakfast

Speaker:

Leadership Network that tells you it's an Network that means

Speaker:

that there's other things to it. And I, I have

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the media arts, I've got the speaking from the podcast,

Speaker:

the, the writing and content creation on all of that

Speaker:

is kind of the umbrella on it.

Speaker:

But I think other shows go into it and you

Speaker:

know, there's, you know, a distinct possibility that it can

Speaker:

bring on additional host to host something along one of

Speaker:

those channels and say, okay, this is part of the

Speaker:

Breakfast Leadership network. They talk about this subject and they

Speaker:

Nisha to niche down, depending on how you say the

Speaker:

word in that particular, you know, row or column I

Speaker:

should say, and you can spit out. So those were

Speaker:

things that have been on top of mind for a

Speaker:

while and then it kind of hash it out. And

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as with anything that I tend to do, I try

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to have it go organically. Yes. I kind of guide

Speaker:

it on certain things, but I think that there's opportunities

Speaker:

here for me to say, okay, let's, let's start focusing

Speaker:

on this and you can still do the interviews that

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I do.

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And when I see, you know, someone coming at a,

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okay, it's an author, they are writing about employee wellness

Speaker:

and this and this it's like, okay, that could go

Speaker:

into the health segment or they could go into a

Speaker:

business segment again, depending on how the conversation goes, but

Speaker:

segue it into those things. And I just tell my

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podcast editor, okay, you use this intro and outro for

Speaker:

this one and, and were good. But I, I think

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that's, that's probably the, the direction I think the show

Speaker:

is going to take, you know, I'm very fortunate. I

Speaker:

get to talk to amazing human beings globally, all over

Speaker:

the world. And from former orchestra directors to people that

Speaker:

worked at NASA to incredible business thought leaders to billionaires,

Speaker:

to you name it in its wonderful.

Speaker:

And you know this from, you know, being a host

Speaker:

and anybody who's listening that ever wants to launch their

Speaker:

own show is you can get access to people that

Speaker:

would be very difficult in the quote unquote old days.

Speaker:

You need to talk with them. All of a sudden

Speaker:

you get them on your show. You're having a one-on-one

Speaker:

conversation. And I've had some conversations with people that I've

Speaker:

had their books for over a decade and I'm interviewing

Speaker:

them, I'm talking to them and I'm picking their brain

Speaker:

and I'm asking them, what about this? What about this?

Speaker:

And there are all gracious with their time and they

Speaker:

tell you here's this and this and this and those

Speaker:

little nuggets that we can all give each other. And

Speaker:

our experiences makes it such a huge difference in moving

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people forward to the next level that they want to

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get too.

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And I'm a big fan of the pie is so

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big. Not any of us can eat all of it.

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There's so much of it. Let's bring everybody there and,

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and eat the pie and, and enjoy it. And hopefully,

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and there's different flavors too. So if you hate pumpkin

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pie and you love Apple pie, there's that too. There's

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plenty of it. So, you know, I, I made it

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a point to whenever I can help people with anything

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that I know something about or know somebody that doesn't

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know something more than happy to help them out because

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it just makes the world better.

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Yeah. Which I think we definitely, as you mentioned that

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at this time, especially with the pandemic in people being

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either on the roll and because of isolation are not

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being able to connect with other people in the normal

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a bit it's as like you said, it's so key

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to us to look out for each other. Now you

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mentioned, obviously you speak to a lot of different people

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and a lot of different leaders across multiple industries and,

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and expertise, et cetera. And not only have a question

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that ask him to show up for my favorite episode,

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stuff like that, but I'm going to, I want to

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spend that a little bit differently. Okay. So who, and

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it doesn't necessarily have to be your, your show, but

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who is your favorite leaders? An example of a leader

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are a great little ship and who is your hero

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of all the time and why?

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Okay. It probably, and I have interviewed this individual. I

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would love the opportunity, but I have spoken with him

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before. And it's a Alan Malali, he's the former CEO

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of Ford motor company. And also the former CEO of

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Boeing before they had the airplane issue that they are

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dealing with right now. And it was, it was several

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years ago, had the opportunity to meet him a couple

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of years ago at a Leadership event and had a,

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you know, brief couple of minute conversation with him. One-on-one

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after his talk. Now I was familiar with him because

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I grew up in the Detroit area. I know all

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about Ford motor company in my grandfather worked for them.

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My, my, my, my family three generations worked for general

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motors had uncles that work for Chrysler.

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So I, I know the auto sector really, really well.

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And you know, so he was the keynote for this

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event and I'd never heard him. I was familiar with

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him, but I never heard him speak. And I never

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really knew some of the backdrop and how he was

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able to turn Ford motor company around at the time

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that he led the organization. Because when he took over,

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you know, they were bleeding really badly and all kinds

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of different things and his approach to leadership and how

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he gave permission for his employees to bring him the

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bad news without repercussion was amazing because so many people

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are afraid to go to their boss and say, I

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think we're going to lose a billion dollars in Q3.

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Well, previous administrations, a Ford, they would never report that.

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They'd hide it in, of course the numbers would come

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out and never, it would be shocked. Like how did

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this happen? Well, he created a scenario that I want

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people to come in and give me the bad news

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so we can all talk about it and figure out

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ways to fix it. And then finally, one of the

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directors or VPs presented something to them and it was

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a loss position and he stood up and he clapped.

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And of course that's not the reaction. A lot of

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people that think of what happened, but he stood up

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and clapped. Cause he said, thank you for being open

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and transparent, honest with what's really going on. Of course,

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the next week. And everybody else was open and transparent

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and it was a sea of red and that's when

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things started to change because then everything was out in

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the open, they knew it was going on.

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And then they started making the adjustments to turn things

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around and, and, and make Ford successful. Again, at that

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time, as again, growing up in the auto sector, it's

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a roller coaster. There are some great times there's some

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bed up down. Of course the great recession was really

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bad, but you know, and we're seeing now all kinds

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of adjustments in the auto sector as well, but Malala

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is definitely, probably somewhat, I would love to interview and

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I, and I've heard him talk and he, he gives

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a great, great talk as far as my favorite leader

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of all time, a hands down Winston Churchill and the

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reason being in, you know, I saw the darkest hour

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and I have followed Churchill and studied him.

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I mean, I look at him sometimes as the accidental

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leader and, or the reluctant leader, there's all kinds of

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different things that I kind of associate with him and

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what he had to do with pretty much the zero

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by-in to navigate, you know, the UK

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Through the war, you know, world war II, right

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In the decision's in the things that had to happen

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exactly the way that they did in working with the

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allies and everything else, it again with no one believing

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in him. 'cause, you know, when he finally got it

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and everyone pretty much saying it because he tried to

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be that role for years and it didn't even get

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close. And all of a sudden here he is, and

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how we navigated through that and, you know, stood up

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for what he thought was right, is inspiring. And sometimes,

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and we know this in leadership, it can be lonely

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at the top. And the reason they say that is

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because a lot of people don't buy into you, your

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vision and the direction that you want to take an

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organization or government or a country, but the resolve that

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he had that was inspiring.

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And, you know, it's, you know,

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About the Podcast

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Podcaster Stories
We listen to our favourite podcasts, but don’t always get to know the stories of the people behind these voices. Podcaster Stories looks to change that.

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About your host

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Danny Brown

Danny Brown is the host of One Minute Podcast Tips, the show that helps you be a better podcaster in just a minute a week. He's also hosted, and co-hosted, several other podcasts - if you called him a serial podcaster, you wouldn't be wrong! He's been in the podcasting space for over 10 years, and has the scars to prove it.

He's the Head of Podcaster Support and Experience at Captivate.fm, the world's only growth-oriented podcast hosting, distribution, analytics, and monetization platform for the serious indie podcaster.

He lives in beautiful Muskoka, Ontario, Canada with his wife and two kids, where he spends winters in front of a cozy fire and summers by the lake. Well, when he finds time away from podcasting, of course...