Episode 14

Eric Barnhart of the Mindful Moment Podcast

In episode 14 of Podcaster Stories, I sit down with Eric Barnhart, host and founder of Urban Contemplatives and the Mindful Moment podcast.

With a tagline of “creating mindful moments for active lives”, each 15-minute episode features conversations with artists, musicians, writers, scientists, philosophers and others, exploring contemplative practices through an ecumenical Christian lens.

Topics up for discussion this week include:

  • how Star Wars inspired his love for music, which inspired his eventual career
  • how that love for music got him a degree in jazz piano, which led to him working in churches”creating mindful moments for active lives”how he’s met other like-minded folks through this association with the church
  • why divisiveness is a global issue versus a beliefs issue
  • how Eric’s seen the very best and the very worst of humanity over the last 25 years
  • how the podcast came about due to the Covid pandemic
  • why allowing yourself to hear your belief is more effective than being told what to believe
  • how he deals with people that are trying to push their own agenda
  • how shared learning through open dialogue is key to a positive community
  • how Star Wars fans can be very similar to those with fervent beliefs
  • why you can have polarizing viewpoints yet still agree on something if it connects with, or moves, you
  • why none of us are experts – in life, in religion, in culture, and more
  • why we need to stop fretting about the things that don’t really matter
  • how Western culture still needs to catch up with other cultures when it comes to mindfulness
  • how Thomas Merton played such a huge part in Eric’s life and goals with Urban Contemplatives and the Mindful Moment podcast
  • how true Christianity is about humility and being there for others, no matter what
  • how Mysticism creates fear in some Christian corners, and why it shouldn’t
  • where Eric sees the podcast evolving over the next 12 months
  • why good ramen is key to a happy life
  • how his love of Jethro Tull helped him learn guitar, even when holding the guitar upside down!
  • how the music industry has paved the way for content creators across all mediums when it comes to distribution and production

Settle back for an enlightening episode where Eric shares what may be the best pathway to peace in our lifetime.

Connect with Eric:

Contact me: danny@podcasterstories.com

My equipment:

Recommended resources:



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Transcript
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It's important to take a moment to pause, right? It's

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important to remind ourselves, first of all, that each moment

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that goes by, I will not come again. We don't

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know how many moments are leading out in front of

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us. And because of that, it is a commodity. It

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is a resource that is not renewable. We, we, and

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we don't even know how much we got that. Right.

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And wow, that's heavy. You know, when you, when you

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take a moment to stop and think about that, just

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that little step can allow me to go, wait a

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minute.

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What am I worrying about right now? What am I

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forgetting about? Why am I forgetting about that thing? You

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know, what have what's really important? And I know I

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need those reality checks all the time.

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Hi, and welcome to Podcaster Stories each year we will

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have a conversation with Podcast. It was across all mediums

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and share their story. What motivates them, why you started

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the show at the growth of the show and more,

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but also to talk about their personal lives and some

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of the things that have happened, I've made them the

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person they are today. And now here's your host Danny

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Brown Hey guys. And welcome to another episode of Podcaster

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Stories will meet the people behind the voices of the

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show's, but listen to it this week, I have attic

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Barnhart and I hopefully I've said your son name, correct.

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Eric and if not, please feel free.

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You know, you know, like tell me if I'm on

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the, the chart and it is a hosted phone

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And all of the Mindful Moment podcast, which it looks

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to offer our listeners a break from our Urban noise.

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So Eric welcome to the show. I'm just going to

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hand over to you to give us a little introduction

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about yourself

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And to show. Sure. Well, first of all, Danny I

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want to thank you so much for being able to

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be a part of your podcast in this season and

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this particular episode, you know, I came, we sort of

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connected through our mutual podcast, host through captivate, a F

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M, which is fantastic. And Mark and the team we

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were there, brilliant folks. And we are a part of

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a group that is open only to people who are

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users or consumers of the platform or the different products

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that captivate and rebel may have put out. And Danny

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is one of the superstars I'm just going to give

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a shout out right now.

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Danny is one of the superstars of that group, that

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Facebook group. And I just always really appreciated the things

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that you have to say. I appreciate how helpful you

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are as a member of that community. It's like, okay.

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So if I want to be a part of a

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group, who would, I Danny Brown, that's what I want

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to be right there. And you should have been just

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so helpful and informative, and I've just really appreciate just

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our little interactions that we've had. So we've really met

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mostly online through that group and what it, what a

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great, a support group that is what a great team

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captivate is. And Danny, what a great member of you

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are. And so when I heard that you were doing

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a podcast or Stories, and you were looking for people

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like sign me up, because I would love to learn

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from folks like you who have been doing things like

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this, your own podcast for many years, and then being

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able to sort of flip it around on its head

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and be able to talk with other podcasts, because I'm

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sure you guys have had a few pints, you know,

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at the different podcasts and conventions and be able to

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swap stories back and forth.

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And I'm sure those are very compelling. I hope I

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will be able to hit at least come close to

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the bar of measuring up a fork for your episode.

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But thank you again for having me here,

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You know, for sure, for sure. And thanks so much,

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like you say to them in that group are awesome.

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It's like that's, to me, that's what the podcast is.

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A community is all about. It's just being there and

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there's no dumb questions, no wrong questions. So, and I

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appreciate that. Thanks to Matt.

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Absolutely. Absolutely. What was your question

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Again? How will you tell me? So after my little

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intro blurb there, I'm sure there's a lot more about

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the shop from, right. So how about Dan? Can you

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introduce yourself and the show itself?

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Sure, absolutely. A poor Danny is going to probably have

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the most stream of consciousness interview a person. I think

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for this episode, you're probably going to ever have the

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bottom line for the show is we create a Mindful

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Moment for active life. That's our tagline. And I my

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name's Eric Barnhart, I've been a musician pretty much since

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shortly after coming out of the womb, I started playing

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on my brother's Fisher-Price toy xylophone when it was about

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two and a half. And I believe you are like

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me or a fellow geeks. So you will appreciate this.

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The first movie that I ever saw on the theaters

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was a star Wars. Also, I would talk very fast.

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I have to remind myself not to talk so fast,

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but that being said a, so I used my Fisher-Price

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toy xylophone and my star Wars action figure at the

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time to play at my little mallets on the xylophone.

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Yeah. So the Chewbacca was great because he had a

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nice round head. I think C3 P a was also

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pretty good, coz it was still fairly round. You can

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get a good thing or a fader you think would

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be good, but that little angle that on the, on

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the helmet, on the back and you kind of a

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mess things up, but I think of it. So I

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started playing hot cross buns and Mary had a little

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lamb on, on my Fisher-Price, but actually with my brothers,

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I had already a very early age. I was stealing

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things for my older brother without him noticing. And a,

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he took the Fisher-Price and we pick out a little

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note and my parents eventually went. That actually sounds like

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something that doesn't sound like him, just banging stuff and

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figured out pretty early on that I was very attuned

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to picking out Melody's and just had a general affinity

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for music in general, had the record player of the

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vinyl.

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You know, you know where to start with from here

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to stay up to seven. I actually was eight old

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enough to remember seeing star Wars. So that should date

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me somewhat of a, of my existence thereof. A but

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the record players, I would list them all the time.

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And eventually my parents bought me a, a toy organ,

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the play, because we didn't have keyboards back in the

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day. And so I would play on that for hours

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and learning star Wars, one of the melodies for sure.

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I had that and just had had music in my

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background for years and years and years. And that led

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me to lots of different things. Basically, I got a

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degree in jazz piano and come up with a focus

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in composition, a at the university of Miami and Florida

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international led me to go down and do that.

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And as part of that, I'd never a really experienced

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working in church's as a context growing up, we didn't

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really go to church growing up or any of those

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kinds of things. But some of the folks that I

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met at the university of Miami and for the international,

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very active and their churches, and one of the things

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I came to be discovered, Oh, there's a lot of

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work in churches. And I ended up getting connected to

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that right around 94, 95. And I started playing with

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different campus ministries there as an both on the piano

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and singing. And so I've been working with a church

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ministry context since around 95 or so.

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And from that, gosh, it's been twenty-five years now. So

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we are urban contemplative sort of arrived this whole podcast.

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This, there is a lot of backstory and a different

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rate, pretty much where this comes from. So Arabic a

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template is a creating mindful moments for active lives is

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essentially the extension. If you will, of a sort of

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a mission I've been on for a long time, in

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the sense of, of how to be able to take

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the things that I have experienced over in my life

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that have been very positive spiritually and in the community,

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since things that have really grown me personally, and I've

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seen benefit, people are also in community things that have

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helped myself and others to put things like divisiveness, put

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things like a one upmanship building our own kingdoms, if

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you will.

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And I'm going to try and avoid as much, Christianese

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the jargon that comes around, you know, Christian churches and

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what not, because there's plenty of it, just like anything

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in the tech world and the music world. So I'm

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going to try and speak as plainly as possible. And

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that's another thing that are being kept up to this

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is about, we try to not use things that make

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us feel like an exclusive elite club. Okay. So the

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goal of Urban contemplative is, is to try and create

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a community with these things that are in our embodied.

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First of all, being a what's called ecumenical, which is

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just a big, fancy word for, Hey, guess what? You

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know, if you're Baptist, if you're Methodist, if you're an

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Anglican, if your Catholic cool, if you're, I don't know

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what the heck I am cool.

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You know, if you were Buddhist, if you're Hindu, cool,

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come hang with this. That's not, you know, we're not

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about wearing a specific hat were not about championing or

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a particular a doctrine write we're here because we are

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trying to figure out what makes this world tick. What

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makes us tick? What makes, what makes life happen and

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how can we experience it for ourselves in ways that

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are fuller or richer? What are the things that we

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can do to be a more positive force in ourselves,

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in a community, in the lives that we lead? So

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that's sort of a nutshell about, or pre contemplative as

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what we are trying to go from much of where

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that came from.

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My, like I said, I have been involved in serving

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churches and working on different kinds of the campus ministries.

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And I'm, I think you have a tech background, is

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that right? Danny no. Yeah. Okay. So like, like any

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kind of irregular sort of community that you're working in,

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you know, you're gonna have a great experiences and not

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a great experiences. Right. And so being in something like

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this for 25 years, I seen some really great things,

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some really great ways to be able to, you know,

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to, to love your fellow man, to if you know,

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to love humanity, I've seen, it's a really bad ways

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to do it. Right. And what, what I've really tried

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to do enduring a template is, is sort of distill

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the things that I've seen.

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Wow, this has really worked over here. This has really

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worked over here. This is really worked over here, lets

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champion those things. It makes something that helps to foster

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that. Does that make sense? No, it does.

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Yeah. And, and I think as well as like you,

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obviously the, the, the podcast is called Mindful Moment, but

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the actual project, if you like that the white a

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project is the Urban contemplative is correct.

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Exactly. Right. So the, and the, the way that Mindful

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Moment came about was actually sort of down the road.

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So we definitely started with Urban and templates Urban and

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template is a we'll sort of my pet project. And

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it actually came out of a worship project study that

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a, basically a homework assignment that I had to do.

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So I did my masters degree at a place called

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the Institute for worship studies. And there are two, two

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years or four main classes. And the third class is

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called post. Well, it used to be called postmodernist, postmodernism

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and Christianity. Now its called Christianity and contextualism because I

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think there's to many posts post, post, post, post post-modernism

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now.

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So I was like, yeah, well that's a scrap that

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title basically. How do you communicate the good news in

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your context, wherever you are, your, your town, your culture,

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your socioeconomic spread, you know, all of the, all the

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demographics are all the analytics As we podcasters would say,

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all right. And so that class, then the final project

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was hay. If you see something that needs to be

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changed, what, what do you think first off needs to

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be changed in your, in your context, but with the

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wherever you work. Right? And so my case, it would

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be, I was a music director. I'm a music guy

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at a church here in travelers, outside of Greenville, South

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Carolina. So that was my context and the degree and

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the question was, what do you see? It, it needs

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to be fixed.

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What do you think might be things that you can

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do to improve? And if you were to improve them,

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how would you do it? And so that little question

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set off a chain of it events that basically led

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to me launching a five Oh one C3, which originally

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was called . And shockingly, we found that a lot

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of people didn't know they were Latin as well as

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we thought they might could even pronounce the name. Right.

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So we switched it to him contemplative, which was the

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name of basically the target audience in that worship project.

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We call it that person in the urban contemplative and

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So switched it, Durbin develops. So from that worship project,

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we launched basically sort of a, an experiment if you

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will on, okay.

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If we were going to do worship in a way

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that ministry me personally, that connects on things that I'm

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missing, what would it look like? And what we see

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so much of this Danny is honestly been born out

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of, you know, you can probably already tell Eric talks

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way too fast. Eric runs and guns Eric's talks to

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stream of consciousness. Eric needs to slow down. Right. Okay.

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And so much of what I found after working for,

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for so long in churches, you know, I would love

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to dedicate a time to where I just chill out

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and I let God speak. And I listen and hear

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what God has to say.

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I would love to take the time where I can

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instead of having to do, do do. And instead of

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having to listen to a talking head, a tell me

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about God, how about just like God told me about

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God. And so many of the things that we do

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in order for contempt, actually most of the things were

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really born out of this since really? For me personally.

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Yeah, I have, I know I had this need. I

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wonder if other people do too. And so we launched

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a little test, run a little, get together with a

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few friends. We invited and folks seem to like it

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and it seemed to work. Okay. So lets go, lets

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go ahead and try a few more. So it was

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just these little gatherings as we call them that we

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did for about a year, year and a half.

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And folks really started to enjoy it. We started to

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refine to retool and essentially what it was, it was

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myself on a keyboard or piano depending on the venue

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and on vocals, a friend of mine who also works

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with me and place a Tre on the guitar and

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vocals and that we had a cellist and a violinist.

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And so that was our band. I'm a musician by

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trade. I have been teaching since 1995 and working in

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churches, playing piano. I was a lounge people in a

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hotel player, four or five nights a week for over

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10 years. So that's, that's my background. So that's, that's

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what I know I can bring in do well to

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a Contact it's like that. And so that's what we

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did. We would take music that we shaped to be

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almost like a film score music.

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Right? So what are the soundtrack of things that you

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could hear, but not be so on and intent that

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it will take you out of being able to sit

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still and to let your mind wander and to let

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it connect and be able to say, okay, let's focus

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on this topic. That was our goal is to be

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able to create a space where people could listen to

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God and a group. And it's really challenging for 21st

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century people, because if you want to make a human

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being uncomfortable and this day and age to tell them

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to sit in a room with 20 other people that

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they don't know that well and silent. Yep.

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And I can imagine, I mean, I find silence so

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uncomfortable even with some of my closest friends at the

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time. So you are, you're always thinking, Oh, I should

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be breaking the sound. So it should be saying something,

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you know, so I can imagine, excuse me, I can

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only imagine what that would be like. You know, we

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have 20 strangers as you mentioned,

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And I'll tell you the daddy working with church and

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for so long, there, there is a section called the

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confessions and the Assurance's and other types of prayer. Right.

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And so we wanted to give folks an opportunity to

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be able to sit there and be able to sort

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of dwell within silence and listen to God, but we

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don't do it in most churches. Western church does not

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do that for that exact reason because you know, okay,

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let's pray. Let's pray silently now. Okay. So now we

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can just move right on it because even the people

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leading, it were not that comfortable with it with just

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direct silence. So what we try to do musically is

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we just try to create this little, this little backdrop,

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if you will, sort of the, the film score, allowing

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people to, okay, I don't hear the person next to

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me breathing.

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They don't hear me shuffling about. And that kind of

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gives me sort of that space. I'm creating an acoustic

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space around them and around myself. So, okay. We, we

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sort of feel safer, secure that people were not being

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a self-conscious were not self-policing and self monitoring, everyone. And

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folks that really resonated with that. And go ahead.

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And you had mentioned that obviously it's for anybody and

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everybody, regardless of, you know, Rogers police, creed, you know,

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what your religion, your affinity or a affinity towards that

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is not even a word and you have an affinity

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for it. I'm going to put that down and I'm

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like a website or, and one. Yeah.

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And I think Webster Merriam, just add, you know, they've

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got your regardless in their own. Yeah.

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So was that a main Deanne? Have you found it

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like, especially, maybe in early days of good in the,

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the project and on the podcast together, but more so

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of the project, I guess, did you have any sort

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of a button heads or are people that were bringing

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in too much of their own beliefs and trying to

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make that the core if you like, or is that,

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is that not a little bit something if you had

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to do

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That's a great question. And the reality is that we

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have had people when they first, so first inquire about

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the group. So Hey, I saw this on Facebook and

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it says you have some Latin and there does that

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being your Catholic. And I'm like, you, you can almost

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smell it coming a mile away. The sort of the,

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the presuppositions that's, that's, that's a way of putting it.

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It was like, okay, if I'm going to look at

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this, I've got to see it through this lens. And

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is this approved by whatever my particular, you know, set

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of beliefs will approve, generally speaking, those people we'd out

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quickly.

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And you know, I have had people who come in

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and, and, and, and, and, and I very much, so

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we will encourage conversation. We will encourage dialogue. So people

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will come at things from a particular angle of, Hey,

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what do you, what do you think about doing this?

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You or I was uncomfortable with this context. What did

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you mean by that? And that's actually the exact kinds

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of things that we look for in terms of conversation

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afterwards, and as a part of our Facebook group's we

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want to talk through things now, if we want, we're

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not looking to proselytize at the same time, like I'm

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not trying to make anybody a Presbyterian. I'm not trying

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to make anybody a Catholic. I'm not trying to make

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anybody or anything, because one of the things that I've

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really resonated with, there's a group called .

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It's out in the sun, Southern France, and a structure,

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a group. There are monks. I'm actually a really cool

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guys, but they basically, when they bring in a brother

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they'd been around since the forties and brother, Roger Lee

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latched him. But when they bring in a new brother,

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they, that person may come from any background and they

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tell him, Hey, don't give up being Anglican, Anglicans. Cool.

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We liked the fact that you are Anglican. So please

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identify as Anglican because you know, I'm over here, I'm

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Presbyterian or I was Baptist. Do you know I am

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Baptist? And the way that you see the world and

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the way that you see God is going to be

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through a different lens, just like an all of us,

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you know, you could be, you have no affiliation and

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you're going to see the world differently.

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Just, you know, Danny you going to see things differently

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from how I see it and affirming that your coming

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from a totally different perspective, you're a different subjective participant

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in an objective reality, right? So you are going to

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be seeing things that I will never have seen. You're

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going to have experiences that I've never experienced. And what

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we try to do is a firm that truth. And

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we affirm the fact that w I can grow, buy

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what you Danny have to say. You know, what your

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perspective is because it's going to be, we could be

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talking about the exact same thing, but through your lens,

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I will see something totally, I may never have ever

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seen or experience. And that's going to enrich who I

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am and enrich my understanding of that thing and a

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view.

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And if myself, does that make sense?

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No, it does that. I know you mentioned Ellie are

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huge star Wars fan. Yes. First movie you saw was

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a star Wars. Same. Here are some of those 77

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as a, an eight year old, white, amazing. The big

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short, when it started to try, it comes over here.

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And that was that it was sold. But yeah, so

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to, to use the, and the star Wars example, I

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guess the last year at I polarized fans. Oh, did

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we don't have a middle? So I guess to that

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point, you can have that polarized point of view because

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two people will see it was a great star Wars

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movie ever, or it was a worst star Wars movie

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ever. Right. I still think fire at the front of

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madness is up there. It was the worst, but we'll

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see it. So how do you sort of encourage that?

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I, I know you mentioned it, that it comes with

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an openness and, you know, you're not forced and people,

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if you like to give up on their own beliefs,

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how do you encourage the sort of, of openness when

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it can be really polarizing?

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No, that's, that's, that's, that's a great question as well.

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And that's something that we have to think through on

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virtually every episode I do. But before I, before I

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answer that I will have to address the fact that

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I am honored and humbled to have a star Wars

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reference as a parallel to, you know, are analogous to

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anything that I would do. I will say this. And

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that's, that's a great a way of saying it be,

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I remember reading, I got Ray, the actress. Thank you.

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Yes, these are real. So it's saying, Oh gosh, the

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star Wars fans, their rough. How about the big, yeah.

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Especially with the vinyl, the movie and just mad they

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can read it. Yes, they can. They can. And, and

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that's such a great analogy because in so many ways,

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star Wars fans are just, you know, we're a cult

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following just, you know, you got the Luke warm areas

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that, you know, the, what they call the M the

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fair-weather fans, you know, when the new movie is up,

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but then you got a, you know, I have probably

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a good 0.1, two, three for, I have a rug

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or of the millennium, Falcon to my studio.

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I was at the top right now and I'm sitting

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on, okay. So this is a pretty, you know, devoted

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for falling. And the fact is that we can still

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love the same movie. Right. And, and hate on it

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at the same time. And I am not a person

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who I'll listen to all the different samples of why

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this and that, like, okay. But you know what, at

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the end of the day I went and saw the

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movie and I liked it. You know, it was star

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Wars. I loved him, you know, and while I can

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see that person's perspective of why that may not have

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been something that okay. Sure, sure, sure. But the bottom

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line for me is whether it was Canon, whether it

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was not Canada, whether it was just a thought out

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of the other thing is the bottom line is why

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is it a, what's a story that I enjoyed, you

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know, did it take me in that?

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I enjoy the stories because that's what I'm going to

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see a movie I'm going to go. I'm going to

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a movie a, because I want to see a story

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with characters that I want to feel vested in and

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see something happen that moves me. That's entertaining that I

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Connect with that makes me go, wow, JJ Abrams talking

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about the first movie. He said, you know, his little

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bar of what they decided, went to the cutting floor

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and what they kept in and said, what do we

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just delight in? I remember him saying that in an

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interview, what something is just a, I just feel like

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this has got to be in there, you know? And,

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and so he w I thought it was the perfect

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director for the first of the last three horrible choice

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for them.

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It's nice to see, but again, that's my opinion. And

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that's cool. Like, I don't know, I hold it loosely.

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And so when we go in and we talk in,

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turn it back around to Urban a template is I

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hold it loosely a first off, you know, I try

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and do as much as I can to not make

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opinions and to not make convictions axioms, because a first

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of all, what do I know? I'm just a dude.

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You know what I'm saying? I'm like, dude, no, there

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is no one person in this world. Please forgive me

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Pope. But there is because I'm sure he's listening to

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this podcast, right. Can you speak dedicated, listen to a

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conference? Oh, I would really open up to get you

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in trouble. So, but the point is, is that there,

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there is no one that has the direct access Line

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to God over everybody else, but you know what I'm

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saying?

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And so were all trying to figure this out together.

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And so remembering that number one. And so when we

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go in to whatever we do, I try and frame

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it from that perspective. Like, I am not an expert.

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In fact, when we have our gatherings at our meetings,

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I would say straight up what we are not, we

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are, none of us are experts. You know, that's built

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in to my script because we aren't, no one is,

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you know, have I been doing this a little bit

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longer that somebody's maybe sure it does that mean that

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they're not going to have anything insightful to say to

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me if they didn't, I'm not sure I'd want to

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be doing gatherings. Right. I think anybody who steps through

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that door or listening to this podcast are joined my

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Facebook community group, you know, and is engaging with us

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on a topic, has something to say whether or not,

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if it's something that I'm going to agree with, whether

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it's not going to be something that is going to

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profoundly shape the next step, you know, it doesn't matter

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as much as it is that the conversation itself is

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happening and I need to be opened because, you know,

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one of the, the fun phrases is a teachable moment.

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Dan, do you know, you'll have a teachable moment and

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I have, I have a 17 year-old. So, so you

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hear all of these fun things, but yeah, I think

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every moment is a teachable moment. You know, when we

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talk about Mindful moments and why we call the Podcast

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that it's because I think every moment we need to

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be mindful of, you know, we only have, you know,

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we were talking about my wife's birthday this weekend earlier,

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and, you know, she just made it out of the

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trip around the sun. We only get so many of

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those. And we don't know when our trip may come

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to an abrupt halt. We don't, nobody knows, you know,

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nobody measures are the days, you know, of a Usually

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of, of, of how that works, you know, best laid

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plans of mice and men, you know? And so it's

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important to take a moment to pause, right?

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It's important to remind ourselves, first of all, that Each

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moment that goes by, he will not come again. We

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don't know how many moments are leading out in front

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of us. And because of that, it is a commodity.

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It is a resource that is not renewable. We, and

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we, and we don't even know how much we got

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that. Right. And wow, that's heavy. You know, when you,

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when you take a moment to stop about that and

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think about that, just that little step can allow me

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to go, wait a minute. What am I worrying about

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right now?

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What am I fretting about? Why am I forgetting about

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that thing? You know, what have, what's really important? And

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I know I need those reality checks all the time.

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I don't know about you, Danny, but, you know, I'd

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get my head down and I just plow and sometimes

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completely forget, Oh, wait a minute. You know, what did

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it even happen today? And why was I doing what

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I was doing today? And I personally need to build

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more and more of these moments of my life to

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where I take pause and say, okay, it's where I'm

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going. Is that what what's really important? Is that what

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I really wanna spend and look back? And if it

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was gone, you know, tomorrow is that a day I

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would've spent that way.

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Where am I lining myself up? I think these quests,

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these are such important questions that our, our, our Western

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culture is beginning to embrace more. I see you, you

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see the mindfulness buzz, you see a lot of it,

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you know, meditation, mindfulness is a lot of these things.

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These are great things. And one of the things that

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I want to be able to encourage is to be

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able to do that and not just on a personal

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level, but on a community level, to be able to

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read from those kinds of things. You know, I come

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at it again from a Christian perspective. And so that,

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that's sort of the, the way I know how to

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frame it and how has it, but gosh, I mean,

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I've, I hear great things. You know, Thomas Merton was

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one of the pioneers of the 20th century monastic movement,

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brilliant guy.

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And pretty much all of the cats that I run

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with Dick Thomas Merton is the Bombe. And they would

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use that term really all the monks. No, they would

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not use that term. So Thomas Merton, who was essentially

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the icon for so many monastics and still is today.

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In fact, he was sort of a, he laid the

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groundwork for a, a group of monks who are not

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far from where I live here and in the Charleston

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area that at MedImmune Abbey, they are part of the

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search in order. And I've, I've gotten to visit their

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several times a day for a great spiritual retreat center

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there that is open to anyone. And I learned a

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lot of what I have taken and important in Irving,

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a template it's in our gatherings, as well as our

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Mindful Moment series from visiting there as well or other

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sources.

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But Thomas, Merton came from that same order, the Cistercian

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order, the banana order, his number one goal was to

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go see how other folks practiced meditation, contemplation, a contemplative

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prayer. And you know, where he dreamed of going was

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Tibet, because those guys who had been doing it that

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way, even longer than Christian had, even if you go

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back to the desert part of, so if these guys

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are pros at this and you know, if you will,

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it's like, I want to see how these guys do

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it. And he has actually where he, he, for years

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and years and years, he wrote about it, wanting to

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do it. And then he actually ended up dying there

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through a tragic accident. Finally got to go, wow. And

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then died there. But he was able to comment some

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on his own experienced there.

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And it pretty much affirmed everything. He thought that it

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was going to be like, Oh, like these guys were

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amazing. And so as the guy who had basically been

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devoted to contemplative life, contemplative prayer, to go and go,

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wow, these guys are amazing. We can learn from anyone.

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You know, if we humble ourselves, if you know the

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whole idea, the whole Christian ethos, they've the entire gospel

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story. When you look at Christ and you look at

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what Paul said about Christ and Philippians, he has he's

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God guys, listen, you have a problem listening to somebody,

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maybe a different perspective than you. Okay. He's God. Back

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up for a second.

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He is God, he came to earth and they didn't

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come to earth. Yeah. All right. I'm here. We are

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going to solve all the problems. Y'all carry me around,

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you know, one of those cute little seat, things like

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that, you forgot the names on them, you know, right

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in your shoulders, you know, like Cleopatra and I've got

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8 million minions to do my every bidding. Now. That's

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not how he humbled himself. He, his final processional, the

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final week of his life was started on a donkey.

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You know, it, it wasn't a Alexis, it wasn't a

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Tesla, it was a donkey. Okay. And so our model,

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and that's one of the reasons why I love Christian

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and I love the story of Christianity the narrative of,

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of what we're talking about it.

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Because I think there are so many great things that

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are embodied with the person Wars trying to emulate, who

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is Christ, that guy. He would talk with anyone, everyone,

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anywhere. And we talked with the woman at the, well,

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she was a Samaritan from John for, this was a

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woman who you, no, nobody would tell she went to

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the Well at noon, because that way she could avoid

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everyone because she was the outcast. And she was like,

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Hey, what's up? And she was like, wait a minute.

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What do you know? And that is what we tried

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to emulate with what we are trying to be about.

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We try and be humble ourselves. We try not to

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presume. And so that, that's our goal. We try and

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a lot, we try and create space. And, you know,

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it's a funny just by doing that well, we'd out

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a lot of people because we don't know what I

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do.

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It's funny. I don't know how much background you have

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around Christianity or churches or what not, but by doing

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what we do, but by sort of being labeled contemplative.

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So by being labeled part of contemplative prayer, that goes

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hearkens back to the same tradition called Mysticism. And that

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term does not sit well with evangelicals, especially in mainstream

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conservative evangelicals, which I have worked with a lot over

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the years, which is funny. In fact, most of my

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gigs that I've worked with have been in fairly mainstream

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conservative Presbyterian churches over the years, the term MS, this

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is my heard very early on, was like, no, I

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mean, this is something. And so I'm like, Oh, what

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is it?

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And so that's the worst thing to do with me.

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And by the way, it was like, More, I don't

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know why we shouldn't check that out. Yeah. You don't

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have like a four-year-old or a really, really okay. How

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do we go? How do I not find out about

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it as she Googles over his shoulder? Or, you know,

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so, and what I have come to experience over the

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years is, is yeah, exactly, exactly. That in terms of

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do some great things over here in this tradition, that

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because just like the reformation, the capitalist system, you know,

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baby bathwater kinda thing, a lot of things got thrown

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out. And part of that is just giving space and

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being able to listen to God. And, and those are

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some of the things that a lot of people, and

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you mentioned, you know, this is really good.

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You know, this, these are the things we need to

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do, but in practice, they don't really happen that often.

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Or if they do, there are very limited supply and

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So Berbick and templates is a Mindful Moment, which is

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a spring out of that. It has really come up

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as a response to saying, Hey, I think we're missing

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some of these other great things that also happened in

Speaker:

there. Traditions guys, I think we could really benefit from

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this. And so as a supplement to what you guys

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do on Sunday morning, because I'm not going to tell

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you how to run your show. You know, if this

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is what you want to be, this was awesome. And

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I think is doing some great work, I think is

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very beneficial. I'm not going to change the DNA of

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Western church is not, my goal was not my call

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and is not, my idea is not what I do

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write. I'm just a guy who wiggles my fingers for

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a living. I'm a piano player, a code, or, you

Speaker:

know, I, I wiggle my fingers write, but I can

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wiggle my fingers over here and give you some people's

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space.

Speaker:

And so that's what we do, but just by being

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associated with that, unfortunately, because of the divisiveness that is

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rampant in our world, just by identifying positively with something

Speaker:

we're going to be associated negatively by other folks. And

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that's unfortunate, but it is what it is, the folks

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who are open to it. Right. And were going to

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try and still engage in dialogue and have conversations with

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people who are open to skeptics. Like what's this what's

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this Mysticism thing. In fact, my very first conversation was

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with the guy that I've ever interviewed about a Urban

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templates. With he actually was a, a, a former church

Speaker:

member. I had worked at a church where it that's

Speaker:

how I met him. And he comes from a thought

Speaker:

of that background. And he said, Whoa, what are you

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talking about really with this?

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And so it was a great conversation. And I think

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I changed some of his pre-suppositions, but you know, Oh,

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this is actually not so scary. Oh, okay. You're not,

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you know, sacrificing goats that what you do, you are

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not, you know, a snake handling or, or anything. And,

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you know, no Virgin is, have you ever been sacrificed

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for the cause you were all good. And so it,

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and it's at that might actually be helpful. I could

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use some of that. Okay.

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No, you have just, you have just finished season what

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I believe of the, the, the show. Yup. And you've

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got seasoned to plan and out, or yeah, I know

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we were speaking to her a little bit of a,

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you've got a lot of content that you can reuse,

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but because you got the video is a statement that

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was one of the things. What, what, what, what are

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your plans for the, for the podcast over the next

Speaker:

12 months and beyond

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Danny I have so many plans, so many plans will

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take over the world. No. So the, so Mindful, Moment

Speaker:

essentially happened at launch in April 12th. I thought it

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was our first episode because we had been looking for

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some time towards launching a supplement. Our gatherings are happening

Speaker:

monthly. Right. And several of the folks said, Hey, these

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things are great, but we would love to have something

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to help us with continuity. You know, we really are

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able to take time out, but we want to help

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develop our own contemplative practices on a daily or at

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least weekly basis. So is there anything that you can

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do? And I was pretty maxed at the time. So

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I said, yeah, if that's something that we can do

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down the road and then Covid and everything got shut

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down and said, okay, well, you know, the thing that

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we looked at about a year down the road let's

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do that now.

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And so we did, and I really didn't because of

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that, I had not been able to put a lot

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of the prep time into planning before launch. So much

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of this was hitting the ground running saying, okay, we

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need to take this idea, but we've done. We need

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to make it into a format. I didn't even know

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it was going to be a podcast. Like until the

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week before I said, we need to do something and

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we need to help our community in this, you know,

Speaker:

in these uncertain times a, you know, we need to

Speaker:

do something that helps them through this, this whole new

Speaker:

level of anxiety and stress while we can't meet. And

Speaker:

so we started developing, I just started figuring out, okay,

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it can't be long. I'm going to be 10 to

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15 minutes.

Speaker:

I still liked the components of having time for prayer

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and having a conversation like we've been doing. Boom Mindful,

Speaker:

Moment, that's pretty much how it came together. And the

Speaker:

first couple episodes were okay. And as we kind of

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kept forming it, forming it, it sort of jelled and

Speaker:

coalesced into something of what we have now, all that

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being said that was season one, 12 episodes seem to

Speaker:

work really well. And it really worked well for a

Speaker:

pacing. It really worked well for our structure. I have

Speaker:

had many people from our community go, ah, I hate

Speaker:

to tell you this, but I like the Mindful Moment,

Speaker:

but other than your gatherings, I'm like, okay, well, I

Speaker:

mean, that's an affirmation will take, it will run with

Speaker:

it. It will, we'll see how we can use that

Speaker:

to inform everything that we do.

Speaker:

And so season two is coming up to launching in

Speaker:

September, and now that we have a format that we

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had sort of settled upon them. I think that folks

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really, like we took the month of July off, we're

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going to take pre production in August. We're taking all

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the awesome ideas that I really am ripping off from

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Danny and using Calendly and all the different structure like,

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Oh, that's, that's, that's a good way to do that.

Speaker:

Danny thank you. Yes. I will do that with my

Speaker:

guests going in forth. And so we are taking all

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these different ideas and in terms of getting our guests

Speaker:

lined up, getting guests, contributors, musically, for our musical reflections,

Speaker:

they are going to be doing that several folks who

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have agreed to do that. So really excited about that.

Speaker:

Our conversation guests that would be bringing on a, we

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have been doing zoom videos in the past because I

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thought I'd just be work. And I didn't know whether

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we would want to use video content later down the

Speaker:

road. So I said, you know what easier to say

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no to something we already have and saying yes to

Speaker:

something that we don't have and suddenly half, you know,

Speaker:

and so we test pilot a couple video content down

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the road. We are going to start putting that in

Speaker:

our membership section for those who want to have a,

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to be able to support us and have sort of

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the, the, the premium content. And that's definitely the model

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that we are going to be going towards is having

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the Mindful Moment, Podcast B sort of the, the, the

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freemium, the, the, the, the quality content that we offer.

Speaker:

We'll always be free, that we will always have provided

Speaker:

for a community at large, or those that want to

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do more of a deep die for those that want

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to be able to know more what's going on, our

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conversations we'll be structured, going forth at we'll definitely have

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a 45 minute Mindful Moment bit that will go with

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the episode's.

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And then I'll be asking other questions for each guests

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that they we'll be able to get at if they

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want to delve more into sort of that conversation that

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I have with that person.

Speaker:

Okay. Cool. And not launched in September, correct?

Speaker:

Yes. So, whatever that first, September six. So I want

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to say this is

Speaker:

Okay. And that's yeah, because you're you publish weekly, correct.

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On the show.

Speaker:

Yes, exactly. So we have 12 more episodes and we

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run a September through November. Yep.

Speaker:

Okay. And you were just doing 12 episodes per season

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that's to your,

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Exactly. So the structure will be 12 episodes one month

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off, so I can regain my sanity and then one

Speaker:

month preproduction and then watch another 12. Mm.

Speaker:

Okay. So just to flip that a little bit, and

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this is something that I'd just like to ask the

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guests, because I'm always curious about the dancers to come

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back for anybody that might know, you have to think

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they may not know your reasonably well, our Annabelle to

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this being, listen to the show and started to think

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they've got an idea of who you are. What are

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the one thing that may surprise some of the news

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about you?

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Oh my gosh. Wow man. So many things. Okay. I'll,

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I'll do two things. One is my, my current, a

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culinary goal's, I'm trying to learn how to make good

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ramen because yeah, because if we have like one ramen

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shop in town, that's it, and everywhere I've, I've, I've

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been able to travel a lot over the last few

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years, I've been able to go to London and to

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Iona and to Scotland, by the way, Scotland, best cider

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I've had yet. So I'm a big cider fan and

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a fiscally cross shout out to those guys are fantastic.

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And it pairs well with the murder blue cheese, but

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I also had an eye on it, the best blue

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cheese I have ever had, and the best cider, both

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at Iona in Scotland, but so being able to travel

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and as part of that goal, I, I try ramen

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wherever I go, whatever in the new shops.

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And we honestly have one of the best ramen shops.

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I have eaten right here in Greenville, South Carolina, but

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it's one place. So I'm trying to take my really

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Meeker culinary skills and trying to figure out how do

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I make this? So that's been my latest projects, the

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musical, a thing that a lot of people probably don't

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know about me. It was just funny because people encounter

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me from different perspectives. You'll see me at the lounge

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piano gig, right? Like, Oh, he must be really into

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this, or they'll see me at church. Oh, you must

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be really into this to see me play it at

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the contemporary service. So he must've really be, and the

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contemporary music, then you'll see me play me at the

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traditional services where I'm playing in Oregon. Oh, you must

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really be into this. So, you know, everyone has a

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piece of my favorite band of all time bar none

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Jethro Tull.

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Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah, absolutely. In fact, if you can't

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see this on the Podcast, so I'm going to show

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it, I'm going to scribe it this right here. Danny

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this is a, this is a dream fulfilled of many

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decades. This is a Martin, Alex. He won a left-handed

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guitar. So when I was in my teens, my brother,

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who was a horrible musician, he will tell you right

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off the back, hi, John, if you are listening, what,

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what a great taste of music couldn't hold a tuna

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in a bucket. I'm, you know, the size of Texas

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where he lives. And, but he loved you if they

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are tall. He's the one that got me interested in

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Jethro tol, but he, he asked me to right out,

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back, back in the day, you know, we didn't have,

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you know, ultimate guitar.com or the, the app's for it.

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So it, can you transcribe wish you were here by

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pink Floyd for me. And I'm like, okay, I'll try

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and figure it out. So I had borrowed his, you

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know, 20 to $20 pawn shop guitar, trying to figure

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it out one day. And he came in and saw

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me. So what are you doing? I'm like, Matt, I'm

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just doing, you know, bro, when you asked to do

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and trying to figure out a chart, it's like, no,

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no, that's not it you're holding it upside down and

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backwards. Oh. And you know, because I'm lefthanded and so

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on. And to this day, I could not figure it

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out for me. I've tried the other way. And so

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you guys are near the, just put it off because

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I've always studied piano and I'm like, all right, I

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don't really have any excuse. Well, in February they said,

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you know what? I have always wanted to do this.

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And so I ordered myself a left-handed guitar and it's

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a Martin , which is the, the portable sort of

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model off of Ian Anderson.

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Who's the lead flutist or a singer. And, and basically

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the genius behind you, if the toll that is modeled

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off of his Martin, Oh 16, and why he, that

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he used to play, which was a, a, not quite

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a parlor size acoustic guitar. And he used silk and

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steel strings back of the day. So that's what I

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have. So because it still strengths and a basic, it

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was, it was the cheapest Martin I could find that

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was about the same size, same kind of body style

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and a contemporary built because the Jethro Tull acoustic guitar

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sound of the seventies and Aqua lung. Was it okay

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album, but you know, pretty much that Mr. On the

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gallery, that's probably my standard right there for the acoustic

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guitar sound.

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I just love it. And then of course it goes

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to the songs to the woods, have your horse's album,

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but all of that period and the seventies that is

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the acoustic guitar that I love and I will cherish

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a day. So I'm finally teaching myself. I have started

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thick as a brick, the opening riff, I'm going to

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get it so that most people would never know that.

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How is that? How's that?

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No, that's awesome. I like Jeff. The tone when you

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mentioned that you listen to them a lot, but w

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when I was a kid growing up, my uncle would

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play in the background. You're out of the time we

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would go visit my uncle. We have Jeff Rotella. And,

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and to your point, like the guitar on that, even

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as a six or seven year old kid or whatever,

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but it was at first like, Whoa, what's this amazing.

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This has been like a real blast. I really appreciate

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your coming on today. And I've really enjoyed the chat.

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It's I think its like it always interested and how

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people approach religion and spirituality and then belief system and

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how that blends and mixes with other people's because often,

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like we mentioned, we can get us a big disconnect

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and to see it come together and, and try to

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open up to everybody and, and learn from each other.

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I think that's something we need more of in the

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world for sure. And I know that the lessons of

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that today's episode is going to hopefully take that away

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and you know, they start asking more questions of themselves

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and how to, to be better to people. For sure.

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So for people that want to connect with you, I

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haven't listened to the podcast, check out the, the, the,

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the, the program check out the, you know, the gatherings

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of the eye, I'm going to assume pre Covid. They

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would be a physical governance, but now it's all online.

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Yeah. So can people join in as like a zoom

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guy that and how can people connect with you?

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Yes, that's it. Thank you. Thanks for asking that. And

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thanks for the kind words. I appreciate that. So right

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now we are not doing that. We haven't done gathering

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during this time. We have been focusing almost exclusively in

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the podcast going fourth. One of the plants that we

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have, and we were talking about this earlier too, is

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adding video content more and more. One of the things

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that I've learned from Mark and, you know, through rebel

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base and through captivate and just observing other content, creators

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is a live streaming is a great thing. And of

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course, one of the thin

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About the Podcast

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Podcaster Stories
We listen to our favourite podcasts, but don’t always get to know the stories of the people behind these voices. Podcaster Stories looks to change that.

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About your host

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Danny Brown

Danny Brown is the host of One Minute Podcast Tips, the show that helps you be a better podcaster in just a minute a week. He's also hosted, and co-hosted, several other podcasts - if you called him a serial podcaster, you wouldn't be wrong! He's been in the podcasting space for over 10 years, and has the scars to prove it.

He's the Head of Podcaster Support and Experience at Captivate.fm, the world's only growth-oriented podcast hosting, distribution, analytics, and monetization platform for the serious indie podcaster.

He lives in beautiful Muskoka, Ontario, Canada with his wife and two kids, where he spends winters in front of a cozy fire and summers by the lake. Well, when he finds time away from podcasting, of course...